Mormon vs. secular - where we're going

WHERE AM I GOING? WHAT HAPPENS AFTER I DIE?

We all ask ourselves these question from time to time, don't we? They're two of life's greatest mysteries... unless you're a Mormon. If you're a Mormon you're pretty sure that you're not going anywhere. Check it out. When you die you'll roam the Spirit World (probably just another dimension of our physical earth) as a missionary seeking to teach of Christ and convert the spirits restricted to Spirit Prison (yet another earth dimension?) to the One True Church. Then you'll be resurrected into a perfect body! Then you'll be judged by Joseph Smith or whoever he's delegated judgment to. But you'll be found spotless because you've truly repented and been saved through Christ's Atonement! And you'll be welcomed with open arms by Heavenly Father, the Great Elohim himself, into the Celestial Kingdom, which just happens to be... EARTH! But not like it is now. Earth will be exalted and perfected as well, which means it will be a gigantic seer stone, or Urim & Thummin. It will be beautiful and we'll all be immeasurably happy forever.

Now if you're not good enough you'll still have a perfect resurrected body (so that's good news) but you won't get to live on a crystal ball with the rest of us and if you're really, really bad (like, apostate bad!) you'll have to float around sadly in absolute nothingness with Satan and his defeated angels. That would totally suck, so for the love of God don't apostatize please.

Secularists really have nothing on this happy explanation. They think our bodies just decompose and enter that whole stupid scientific circle of life bullshit, and make no claims about an eternal spirit (because they're too afraid to make BIG CLAIMS without any backing evidence at all!). How is anyone supposed to be sold on something so... natural? It's like they think we're supposed to observe the world and somehow conclude that we human beings are just a part of it instead the purpose for it!

Mormons clearly have the better explanation. Never mind that it produces an endless string of unanswerable questions that quickly lead to ludicrous and infantile notions of what life after death must be like. Thinking too much about it might lead to doubt and we don't need any more of that!

"You can leave the Church, but..."

You Can Leave the Church, But You Can't Leave it Alone. (Reposted from here.)

I had a conversation with a friend about people who wonder why post-mormons don't all quickly move on. I'm sure you've all heard the saying, "You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone." This is my response to that claim:

There's a huge double standard, as evidenced by the following:

1- I don't go knocking on my neighbor's doors to tell them about Agnosticism.

2- I don't text them saying, "I noticed you went to Church today. I sure missed you at not-Church. Hope to see you soon."

3- I don't bribe their kids with treats to stay home from Church.

4- When my Mormon neighbors move, I don't track them down and invite them to leave the Church in their new area.

5- When PBS has a show on about Charles Darwin I don't make fancy invitations and invite them to watch it with me.

6- I don't keep track of who's going to Church and who's not.

7- I don't fly across the country to Philadelphia at my own expense and spend two years trying to get Philadelphia Mormons to leave the Church.

8- I'm not constantly quoting Richard Dawkins or Carl Sagan on Facebook.

9- I don't put on a huge anti-Mormon pageant every year and invite all of my Mormon friends.

10- I don't secretly interrogate their children to find out why their parents are staying in Church.

11- When a Mormon neighbor makes the decision to stay in the Church, I don't write them a letter explaining the eternal consequences of their decision and telling them that before they make such an important decision they must sit down with me to discuss it.

12- I don't drive down to the Church on the night they're having youth activities and say, "Hey kids, we're on our way to the arcade. Do you want a ride?"

13- I never look at a Mormon and try to figure out what type of underwear they're wearing.

14- I never use funerals as an opportunity to teach the plan of natural selection to grieving Mormons.

15- I have never written my testimony inside a copy of No Man Knows My History and given it to a Mormon while explaining what the book means to me and how it has changed my life.

16- I have never bought a Mormon a gift subscription to a Secular Humanist magazine.

17- I have never told a Mormon how they should vote.

18- I have never criticized a Mormon for the clothes they are wearing.

19- I have never chastised a Mormon friend for posting something on Facebook that was too mormony.

20- I do not deny my Mormon friends and family the opportunity to attend weddings, even if they're not Agnostics in good standing.

21- I do not send Birthday cards to my Mormon Neighbor's Children with a note that says, "Darwin loves you and so do I. We sure miss you when you go to Church."

22- I don't tell my Mormon friends that they're going to hell because they don't believe in the Big Bang.

23- When my less-active Mormon neighbors decide to start going to Church more often, I don't visit them at a time when I know their spouse will be at work and tell them, "Now you know you don't have to go to Church just because your spouse wants to go. You're allowed to make up your own mind."

24- I don't disown my child if they decide to be Mormon.

25- I don't counsel anyone to divorce their spouse because they've decided that Atheism isn't true and that Mormonism makes more sense.

26- When I notice that a family in my neighborhood has attended Church for several weeks in a row, I don't leave delicious chocolate cupcakes on their doorstep with a note that I wish they would stop attending.

27- I don't get together with several of my Post-Mormon neighbors and say, "Hey, lets make a list of all the Mormons in the ward boundaries, and let's think about it and pray about it, and we'll narrow that list down to 5 names, and we'll focus all of our energy and attention on these five people or families, and we'll try to get them to leave the church."

When I was Elder's Quorum President, I was instructed to contact all the elders and potential elders every year, even if they had requested not to be contacted, because they could have changed their mind since last year.

So who's not leaving who alone?

Johnny Rotten's thrown overboard

John Dehlin didn't make it. His court of love has sentenced him to spiritual death. He's been amputated from the body of Christ. He's finished. An apostate. Illegitimate.

If only he had doubted his doubts harder. He succumbed to the wiles of the Devil. He became prideful. He waved his dick in God's face and got fucked. Sorry, John, but because of you so many of us now have full faith in everything again.

God is great, Jesus saves, Mary was a chosen vessel, Joseph was a chosen instrument, Tommy's got the direct connection, in the holy name of Unctuous Josh, amen!

Direct pressure

 
When it comes to "direct pressure to conform", Mormons have an arsenal of pressures and a wide range of pressure points to work with. Members who question the Church will certainly feel it from believing family and they might get called in to talk with the bishop, who will likely send out a request that home and visiting teachers make a greater effort. Every word and every action gets evaluated constantly in order to understand one's strength of loyalty to the Work.

Nowadays every minute spend in church, every lesson-oriented visit, every Ensign article, every second of General Conference feels like direct pressure. 

Quick Guide to Continued Belief

This comes from the Internet.

"[T]hose who have been led by the Letter to a CES Director to abandon their faith, should, in my view, reconsider those Mormon claims and the abundant historical support that’s available for them. They simply haven’t studied enough." -Daniel C. Peterson, fairmormon.org. 

Mormonism: a gospel "so simple even a child could understand" but so nuanced only a person with the equivalent of a PhD of study of church history could actually convince themselves was true. But what do I know? I'm just another apostate.

P.S. If you're not following Just Another Apostate on Facebook, you probably should.

The Fridge Profet on leaving one's faith

Here's a great post from the Church of the Fridge. Read it. We thank thee, O God, for the Profet.

Elvira Annie Cowles Holmes (Smith) - wife #29

Elvira Holmes (November 23, 1813 - March 10, 1871) joined the Church in 1835 at the age of 22. Her father Austin Cowles had joined earlier.

Austin moved his family to Nauvoo in 1840 where Elvira gained employment at the Smith residence.

It was there she met Joseph Smith's long time friend Jonathan Holmes, to whom she was married (by Joseph) and with whom she bore two children. Six months after her marriage to Jonathan, Elvira was sealed to Joseph. Jonathan deeply resented that his children with Elvira would be given to Joseph in the Celestial Kingdom.

Elvira's father Austin disaffected from the Church and helped with the Nauvoo Expositor, the paper denouncing Joseph's secret polygamy and contributing to the local anger felt towards Joseph.

Elvira moved out west with the saints. Her husband Jonathan married his second wife, Sarah Ingersoll Harvey Lloyd, in 1862.

Elvira died in Farmington, Utah.

Sarah Lawrence (Smith) Kimball Mount - wife #25

Sarah Lawrence (May 13, 1826 - ca. 1890) and her sister Maria (December 18, 1823) were left orphans at the respective ages of 16 and 19 after moving with their parents from Canada to Nauvoo. Joseph Smith became their legal guardian and the sisters lived with the Smiths alongside Emily and Eliza Partridge. Like the Partridge sisters, Sarah and Maria were drawn into polygamy with Joseph Smith with Emma's consent. They continued living with the Smiths until Joseph's assassination.

Sarah was married to Heber Kimball, had four children, but divorced him less than a decade later. She later married Joseph Mount and started denying any connection to Joseph Smith and Heber Kimball. Her life ended in California.

Nephite ward lists

To all of you out there who are struggling with the recent excommunication news, let me just say, PEACE! BE STILL! This is all part of God's plan for his church. We read in The Book of Mormon that excommunication is a divinely inspired practice that brings order. It can be very hard for the faithful, it's true, but we've got to be strong. No slipping up! Heaven forbid you lapse into apostasy too!

Now if only we could find some of these Nephite lists of believers. Wouldn't it be great to see if Nephites blotted out the names of the unrepentant completely or if they just earmarked them in their database as excommunicated so they could more easily reinstate those lost sheep once they returned like we do today? I mean the Church totally has it figured out now! Don't delete anybody! Keep them all signed up! Just hide the names of excommunicated members until they return to the fold! It might not be honest, but you have to agree it's generous and loving.

Johnny "Gone Rotten" Dehlin & Kate "Machine Gun" Kelly

Well members of the LDS Church can now officially hate John Dehlin and Kate Kelly, two horrible people advocating for the fair treatment of gays and women in the Church, because just a few days ago they were both informed via post that their heads are going to roll! That's right! Excommunication, that most glorious of loving practices!

Sorry, John and Kate, but we will not tolerate your evil liberal ways. We hope you have fun getting shit on by your family and community from here on out because you now wear the sign of the Beast on your brow. Or maybe try repenting or something. Show us how sorry you are. We love that shit!

And for all you assholes out there who actually like what John and Kate have done, REPENT YE MOTHERFUCKERS, FOR THE CHURCH OF GOD IS PISSED! You have now been given a fair warning with the examples of John and Kate that love and compassion are not enough. The same goes for you followers of brother Waterman, too! (Sister Colvin, you might be next!) Mend your ways or you might be next! (Unless you don't have enough people listening to you, in that case let all your crazy out whenever you feel like it.)

In efforts to clarify the situation the Church has released an explanation of sorts. I just have a few questions about this press release. Did John and Kate really do this to themselves or isn't it really the Church doing the excommunicating? When can we expect our leaders to clarify John and Kate's false teachings? What exactly have they said that is so horribly incongruous with LDS doctrine? And is the "door" really and truly "always open" to people who are excommunicated? I thought there was policy that getting excommunicated twice locks that door for the rest of your mortal existence. Dieter, can you help us with any of these questions and doubts? 

Truly this is God's work, I solemnly declare, in the name of Greasy J, amen.

What's in a name?

"C'mon, guys, stop screwing around with these non-Jesus temples."

"Therefore, whatsoever ye shall do, ye shall do it in my name; therefore ye shall call the church in my name; and ye shall call upon the Father in my name that he will bless the church for my sake. And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel." (3 Nephi 27:7-8)

It's so obvious to members of the LDS Church that the true church of Jesus would bear his sacred name, which is why the Church likes to be known as the LDS Church. LDS stands for Latter-day Saints. Wait, what? No Jesus in there? Oh, well that's because the official name of the Church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We've totally got some sweet Jesus action going on there now, right? Don't ask me why the LDS Church doesn't prefer to be called the CJCLDS, or the C of J, or LDC of C, or any acronym that would keep a J or a C or both in the mix.

"...but if later on we change it, Jesus won't care."

In 1830 the Church began as the Church of Christ. What an excellent name for Jesus' church and how very fitting with Jesus' instructions in 3 Nephi. But four years later, in direct opposition to the words of Jesus, the name was changed to the Church of the Latter Day Saints. They gave up Jesus... but only briefly! In 1838, the Mormons reclaimed JC as the central figure of the Church, which adopted the name Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. So that was only four years of not being Jesus' church which isn't so long in the grand scheme of things.

Oh ya! Sometimes the LDS Church likes to put "Mormons" in parenthesis after LDS. It's very important to the Church's PR department that the whole "Mormon" thing not get out of hand either. Don't ask me why.

Court of Love

Church discipline is an interesting thing. Typically it involves an offending member and the offender's bishop working things out as quietly as possible. There might be a temporary probation enacted on certain types of participation, but the idea is that the offender has time to work through the repentance process fully and arrive at a good place spiritually. The works of God and His Church are sacred and not to be defamed by those who cannot or will not respect them.

Disciplinary councils, or "courts of love" are much more serious. They typically address weightier matters that might warrant excommunication. Typically those matters have to deal with sexual indiscretion, apostasy, and occasionally the mishandling of tithes.

Coming down hard on local leaders embezzling tithing funds seems appropriate. No one should be taking monies intended to assist in the cause of Jesus and use them for personal or worldly gain. (Then again, we have no idea what the LDS Church is actually doing with the money even when it does make it past the local leadership.)

Matters of sexual indiscretion come in all shapes and sizes so it's hard to come up with any single example that can fully illustrate all of the issues at stake. I'm all for finding out who in the Church is sexually abusive, who is offending the law (as in the case of child porn), and getting the right counseling for anyone seeking to overcome hurtful sexual practices. Where courts of love become questionable lies more in the nature of the court itself. You have the offender facing off alone to a bishop, a stake president, and fifteen high counselors (all of whom are men). That's one against seventeen. Often an unknowing spouse is involved, in which case there could very well be an unpleasant surprise in store - a surprise that the spouse gets to sort out in front of eighteen people who know more about the matter than he or she does. Sexual matters are delicate and can contribute to deep embarrassment and shame. Does a wife hearing about her husband's sexual escapades for the first time deserve to hear it in front of nearly twenty men, some of them neighbors?

Potential apostates are another tricky matter. You have all kinds of unorthodox thought and practice to address from something people who think the Church has derailed to self-proclaimed prophets who are seeking followers. You also have people who run into difficult problems with what the Church claims and are asking for answers. Asking hard questions doesn't go over well in disciplinary councils. You're supposed to be humble and let the Church remold you.

I think the only reason I didn't have a problem with this in the past was because 1) I believed in keeping the Church safe from apostates and 2) I didn't know what kind of shit went down in these disciplinary councils. In my mind, anyone dragged into a court of love was going to get what they deserved! Nearly twenty inspired men can't be wrong, can they? How often do these courts turn around to blame the victim? You should have learned to be more sexually satisfying! You shouldn't have started investigating Church history! You should have doubted your doubts, not your faith!

Spying for the Lord

I think it's safe to say that there are a number of things going on in the Church that members don't know about: the general membership has only the vaguest of ideas about what's going on with Church finances, most members have never heard of the Second Anointing, the majority of members do not have access to the first volume of the Church's Handbook of Instruction, and very few members have ever heard of the Strengthening Church Members Committee. I'll let Jake over at Wheat & Tares explain it to you.

Recently the topic was brought to public attention by John Sweeney's interviews in the sensationalist BBC documentary The Mormon Candidate, in which Jeffrey Holland makes a total jerk of himself on camera. But Holland does manage to fain ignorance and provide only the most vague of explanations as to what the SCMC is or does. Instead Lynne Whitesides, one of the September Six, offers a much clearer (but no less sensationalistic) explanation in the book Latter-Day Dissent describing the SCMC as "a Gestapo-like group which press-clipped everything anyone said who might be considered an enemy of the Church, meaning one who disagreed with Church policy"

Sensationalism aside, let's face the fact that the Church has an unpublicized, undiscussed program dedicated to rounding up dirt on potential "enemies" to assist in the process of excommunication. Isn't that wild?

I have to doubt that Jesus would be into this sort of thing. I could be wrong, but the only time he had the opportunity to excommunicate someone (Judas, who was about to betray him) his reaction was something along the lines of "knock yourself out!" or "get 'er done!" No spying, no collecting evidence, no "court of love," no defensiveness, no blaming, no fear tactics.

On the inside looking out

"Faith-killers are to be shunned. The seeds which they plant in the minds and hearts of men grow like cancer and eat away the Spirit." Carlos Asay

Mormons don't shun like other religions, at least not anymore. Nowadays when someone leaves the Church he or she will likely still be welcome to come home to be with family and friends will still answer a disaffected friend's calls, but to say that everything stays the same would not be accurate for the vast majority of people who leave. Mormons handle dissidents with extreme care and expect former Mormons to agree to an awful lot of self-censure. It can make for some extremely uncomfortable encounters when family and friends are obviously concerned about casting their pearls before a swine such as yourself or when they're afraid that your opinions are aimed at corrupting and corroding their faith. It's not a pleasant feeling to have something you would like to say but don't dare say it for fear of offending people you love.

Mormons don't typically shun, but don't be surprised if they speak less frequently to you once you've left. Don't be surprised when old friends and acquaintances shy away and eventually disappear. It's only natural that removing a cornerstone of your relationship, if not the entire foundation of your relationship (as in the case of friends from church), would place some serious stress on both parties. The party who stays will, of course, be thinking "damn, I wish my friend would lighten up a bit and let the Spirit guide" while the party who has left is thinking "for fuck's sake, why can't they turn off the Church-installed chanting and think about this as though they were hearing it for the first time?!" How could a get-together between these parties possibly feel comfy and cozy? This is is just the natural result of growing apart, right?

Not really. Mormon leaders and Mormon scripture actually teach adherents to view those who give up Mormonism as sad, pitiful people, who are often consumed with bitterness and hatred. Apostates are cold and aggressive. They've adopted unhealthy lifestyles that drag them further down. They've been beguiled of the Devil and are too hard-hearted to accept the gift of Christ's Gospel. Mormons pray for those who leave the same way they pray for sick people.

Why should anyone belong to an organization that believes people who once believed but now think differently are mentally ill or possessed by the Devil? It's really weird. It's one of the reasons why Mormons don't dare think outside of Mormonism - it would be like having sex with someone who's saturated with venereal diseases - distasteful and dangerous! Most Mormons won't touch it. At least not without their 10' pole and their gloves on. It's not quite shunning.